Stop Telling People to "Have More Gravitas": How to Make Executive Presence Visible, Coachable, and Repeatable

Hey everybody, it's Alex Grande back for another amazing webinar today with KAREN Laos, and we're going to be talking about her experience as a keynote speaker, high-stakes communication specialist.

We're talking about how we can show up in the workplace, which is so important that we bring our excellence, in our everyday interactions, right? And show people what we're really capable of, and not getting held back from, you know, things like maybe not being as confident as you really are. So, I'm really excited to have Karen here. Karen, again, is a keynote speaker. She's a high-stakes communication specialist who equips leaders to speak with clarity, authority, and confidence when it matters most. With 25 years of experience working with leaders at NASA, Google, Netflix, Facebook, and Hilton. She has coined the term “credibility gap”, the distance between how capable you are and how capable you come across. And she's a three-time best-selling author, host of Ignite Your Confidence podcast, so put that in the chat. And creator of the Powerhouse Presence and the Confidence Cocktail. I want to drink that. Karen brings practical strategy, bold energy, and refreshingly direct approach to every stage. Welcome, Karen.

Karen Laos: Thank you, Alex! Looking forward to this!

Alex Grande: So, I know that, you're in the Bay Area, we both live basically down the street from each other, probably, we'll probably crossed paths, in the maybe Haight, Castro neighborhood. Tell me something that was fun from your time living there.

Karen Laos: I loved the variety of foods. I'm not gonna lie, I'm a total foodie, so there's always new things to try, and new places to go, and the fact that you can walk out of your door and pretty much have any restaurant from any country in the world within a few blocks, or even sometimes right next door.

Alex Grande: Yeah, I didn't mention it, I mentioned San Francisco, the neighborhoods Castro, and the Haight. What was your favorite restaurant of yours?

Karen Laos: Oh my gosh, I loved Park Chow, which was actually… that no longer exists, but that was near Golden Gate Park, and I loved that they had a fireplace inside. I actually hosted the… my wedding brunch there on the top roof deck, so that was one of my fun ones. How about you?

Alex Grande: Awesome. Yeah, there was a place in the Lower Haight called Kuko’s. It was a Salvadoran family. Shout out to the Kuko family. They made a plantain burrito. That was.

Alex Grande: die for, and it was made with love. I would help the kids with their homework, and of course, it's not there anymore.

Karen Laos: Of course, of course.

Alex Grande: Yeah, but yeah, I love the small-town feel of the big city of the seven-by-seven-mile San Francisco. Yes. But, yeah, so, you know, people here, in the webinar, you know, we want to talk more about, how we can show up, how can we ignite our confidence? And there's something that you've talked about, which is vague feedback, and.

Karen Laos: I just…

Alex Grande: I thought we could kick it off by, you know, maybe sharing a time where you had a memorable moment where you received vague feedback.

Karen Laos: Well, I want to share when I started in a boardroom one day. So, or when I started. When I was in a boardroom many years ago, I was completely tongue-tied, and so I'll tell you the feedback in a moment, but I want to set the stage. So, I was… at that point in my career, on stages at all of these big brands, and teaching C-suite executives how to communicate, and yet, in this one particular meeting, I was tongue-tied. And it was so bad, my boss shut down the meeting. And I was mortified. She pulled me aside after, and she goes, Karen, you didn't trust your gut. You could have just tabled the meeting. And I remember being just flabbergasted with that possibility, because number one, I thought, what? I could have tabled the meeting? I was taught that you just do what your boss tells you, you have to figure it out. Even though I actually disagreed with what she suggested I present, I never spoke up about it. So, then when it came time to actually do it, I couldn't get the words out. The second thing I was thinking is, why do I keep asking for permission? And that is something that really stuck with me, that caused me now to, ultimately, I would say that I was in a prison of my own making. And once I got myself out, I realized, oh my gosh, I want everybody out too, I want everybody to be free, and know that there are practical strategies that you can employ that will shift how you show up in a room, and even how you feel about yourself. Which is why I'm on a mission to silence self-doubt. I work with men and women, but Silence Self-Doubt, specifically my mission is to reach 10 million women. And… help them to overcome and speak with confidence. But it's… that… that was one of those pieces of feedback that was so helpful to me. Now, in that case, now, she didn't really give me anything super specific, because I know we're talking about specific feedback today and how important that is. But I will say that I took it and ran with it, which is also a great example of anybody listening to this to go, when you get that feedback, number one, you can ask for clarity, but then secondly, even if you don't get clarity, then figure out, okay, how can I get to that point where I find out what can I do behaviorally that will make the biggest difference.

Alex Grande: Yeah, I love that, and you know, with people on the call, I think we're all wondering, what are some tactile things we can do? What are some specific things to be confident, to show up with our greatness?

Karen Laos: Well, the number one thing is to think about how you are walking into the room, starting even before you walk into the room. even things like saying… now, affirmations work for some, they don't work for everybody, but I will say, for me, it's very helpful just simply shoulders back, taking a deep breath, smiling on your face, and walking into the room saying, I belong in this room. So, that's a lot of the almost energetic work that you do beforehand. But when I say, even as I'm saying energetic work, I also want people to know what I mean by that, and so it could be simple things like affirmations, it could be deep breathing. It is also being careful of putting the protective measures in front of us, like hand clasping, or crossing our arms, or even… I was coaching a client yesterday, and I was telling her, you know, you've got to get your elbows away from your body a little bit, because you're making yourself smaller. Sometimes people do the T-Rex dinosaur, where their elbows are stuck to their body, and all they're doing is moving their hands. So you want to think simple things, like expanding it. And you know what was fascinating about what she said that I hope that everybody benefits from this too, because she said to me, do you know what I realized? when I expand my arms out like that, It makes me feel unsafe. And I thought, wow, this is such a good example, because most of us tend to… I mean, our core is the place that we tend to protect. Because it is the most vulnerable if we are open, and yet we have to remember we're not out in the jungle with a saber-toothed tiger, at least for most people in the world at work. So remembering simple things like bigger gestures. But also, it's simple things like… one of the things I taught myself, because I like to say I'm a recovering rambler, is if you have a tendency to ramble, how to stop rambling and get to the point. I'll share this tip and then turn it back to you, Alex. But simply pausing in the moment when you notice yourself rambling. Pause, breathe, take that second to think. And then say out loud, my point is this. It recalibrates you, it recalibrates the audience, even if it's an audience of one, and we're all attuned, or I should say, we are all susceptible to attention spans being very limited. And you have to remember, nobody… I hate to say it, nobody cares that much about what you're saying. Sometimes, because when we're under the gun, when we're in a high-stakes situation, we're gonna feel that pressure as if everybody is listening to us. And sure, on one hand, they are, but they're also… we're competing with all the other things in their brains. So, I also say that to offer people some comfort to know that people aren't hanging on your every single word. So, it's okay to be a little messy sometimes, too. But I understand, we want it a little bit.

Alex Grande: Yeah, I mean, innovation, requires one to make mistakes. If you're not ever failing, you're not trying your hardest, you have to put yourself out there. But what I'm hearing from you is there's a lot of little things we can do around, you know, our body, and how we kind of Present ourselves, even from an unconscious perspective. Jess probably wants me to move forward with the slides. Before we go further, let me introduce myself. I'm Alex Grande, CEO and co-founder of Recognize. We provide employee recognition and rewards, company culture, surveys, announcements. and everything in between to really create a culture of appreciation, and to know what winning looks like, and promote more winning throughout all your locations, international. We have live event tickets, we have 150 country reward options. Love to talk to you more about that, incentives, but I'm just loving this conversation with Karen. And, again, here's her information, here's her email, here's her website. Go check it out. She's an author, go buy her books. And when you see her speaking, go see it. But yeah, we'll talk about the next webinar soon. I'll leave that up for a second, and then I'm gonna stop sharing so we can focus on the conversation here. Yeah, I think that's really great. You know, I think a lot about some of the neuro-linguistic programming training I've done. To save people a bunch of money and a lot of time, basically it's the idea of presenting yourself in a certain way. Right? Like, if you're talking about a presentation, you're talking about… maybe you, talk early about the early successes of the company, and you frame it as a plane taking off, right? And you use a hand gesture, then later on the presentation, you talk about how your project's gonna create a runway and take off. You know, now you're unconsciously.

Karen Laos: Yes.

Alex Grande: and you creating a visual. These are very kind of nuanced things, but the biggest takeaway I took from all that is I hear, see, and feel the outcome I want. Right? So instead of going into a situation feeling fearful of what the person's gonna say, you go in, already have heard, seen, and felt the success of having a great conversation with that person. Now you go in a lot more relaxed. And capable, and confident, and people don't like people who are worriers, and nervous. Yeah.

Karen Laos: Absolutely, and the other thing that comes to mind, I love that, by the way, because it actually reminds me of an exercise I do with my clients, is I act as if… we talk as if the difficult presentation, or whatever it is they might have been nervous about, has already happened. And exactly what you're saying, and I will ask them more questions, like, oh my gosh, who was… what was the best compliment of the night? How did you feel when you were up there, and trying to… get them to really start thinking about it and more so feeling it. I love that. I love that so much, Alex, because it works, right? It works!

Alex Grande: Yeah, you know, nervousness and excitement on the same part of the brain, so you can… you can say out loud, I'm excited, and I am an avid rock climber, and when you go for that final go, it's very scary, because you don't want to do it again, it hurts, it's… it's scary. But you do it because you're nuts, I don't know why I do it, but you do it, and right before you do it, I say, I'm excited, I'm excited. And I… and I actually jump up and down and put my hands in the air, and it feels good. It feels good. So I think we can… we can trick ourselves with these little things, then we walk in that room more confident, humble, respectful, but confident.

Karen Laos: Absolutely. Yes, I love the term humble confidence. That is absolutely such a powerful reminder. So good.

Alex Grande: Yeah, well, moving on, we have so many good, great questions, with the time we have, so I want to talk about executive presence. Yes. So, I found that… I was surprised to learn that, this decides about a quarter of promotions Yet, most people will describe it as gravitas or charisma. Why do you think feedback is so hard to act on?

Karen Laos: Well, I think it starts with people not giving feedback in a very… a way that is concrete. And I think people mean well, but we've heard these words. We generally tend, as human beings, to do things that we learn through our own patterns of modeling that came before us, whether it's our parents or other people in our lives that we respect and think, oh, that's the way it's supposed to be. So, we almost… I think, too, we all want to look good, so we hear, like, oh, Gravitas, that sounds good. Or, so many times, I hear people who have shared that their bosses have said, they just told me that more executive presence. I don't… what does that mean?

Karen Laos: Because it is such a nebulous thing, it's… it's… those are all labels. So… I'm in the business of making those repeatable. So, for example, let's just take confidence, okay? That is a… that is a very broad term. It's… and it reminds me… I have to share this story, Alex, because when I was doing research on this with a team. We went to an EVP, so Executive Vice President, and one of the largest companies in the world, and we asked her, how would you define it? And after a long, dramatic pause, she goes. I don't know, but I know it when I see it. And I'm thinking, an EVP who's deciding who rises and who stalls based on something she can't even define. And the more that I hear this, the more… and the more feedback I get, which is… it's interesting, because this is how I've been trained my whole life, so I've almost… Taking it for granted, like a lot of us, in our own expertise. And so many people have said, oh my gosh, you made it actionable for me. I had no idea. So let's take, for example, I know I said confidence before. Okay, so what does confidence look like? Well, one of the things is… Posture! So, for example, body language. Okay, but then, going deeper into that, okay, maybe there's, again, how you hold yourself. I know we talked a little bit about posture already, but remembering always to separate your hands. So, for example, I did a program once at AT&T many years ago, and there was a woman who asked me if I would record her, because that's the bread and butter of what I do. And I'm so thrilled that she did. She wanted to introduce me before I did the training. She was seated at a table. She was petite already, lots of energy in her face, and in her voice, and in her hands, but her hands were under the table, and she was gesturing wildly, but it looked so strange. So then. I am guessing she got more comfortable, and then her hands came above the table, and it was such a different experience. And so, what's so great about, and this is what I'd recommend to everybody here, if you haven't recorded yourself. in a real situation. It is so powerful to see that objective reality, and what was so great about her in particular is that we got the recording of her in the ineffective behavior and in the effective behavior. So, remember, just simple things like have your hands above the table when you're speaking, and then simple things as well, like eye contact, making sure you are actually looking at people. And then, one other thing that I will emphasize is speaking with conviction. We write emails and punctuate them, but somehow, the spoken word, we have lost that. And I'll do a quick demo. So, let's say most people that introduce themselves, it's one big run-on sentence with a bunch of commas. So, it might sound like this. Hi, I'm Karen Laos, and I'm originally from Minneapolis, but now I live in the Bay Area. Versus… Hi, I'm Karen Laos. I am originally from Minneapolis, but now I live in the Bay Area.

Alex Grande: Hmm. Right.

Karen Laos: Isn't it fascinating?

Alex Grande: Slowing down. Slow it down.

Karen Laos: All I'm doing is putting a period at the end of my sentences, and yet most people don't even say their name with conviction. We have that, I'm Karen Laos, da-da-da-da. And I hear this all the time. If you listen to anybody's elevator pitch, and you are probably going to hear their name with a comma or a slight up-speak at the end.

Alex Grande: That's so funny. Well, you started with a vulnerable story, and I thank you for that with your boss. I guess for me, I would… I would say similarly how… you know, I have so much in my head, I want to get out as quickly as possible, but then nobody actually hears me. So, maybe if I said half as much as I, you know, am trying to say, but with pauses, then at least 50% will get through. You know, so that's really interesting.

Karen Laos: Yeah, you remind me, Alex, excuse me, I was listening to a bunch of pitches the other day in Silicon Valley. And I remember this one guy, they each had 5 minutes to pitch.

Alex Grande: Right, right.

Karen Laos: And one of the guys said, okay, I see I'm running out of time, I'm just gonna talk twice as fast.

Alex Grande: I used to do… I've done those… I've done those pitches. Good practice.

Karen Laos: Yes, it's so true, isn't it? And I always chuckle, we all want to say so much, and yet we have to remember the power of simplicity. We don't want to speed up, we simply want to say less, and the reminder of less is more, otherwise we may end up also confusing people.

Alex Grande: You know, yeah, and you know what's so funny about that, I gotta say, I gotta share a story about a pitch contest.

Alex Grande: Experience at a pitch contest. was this… this woman who, I sat next to her, very charismatic, beautiful, and, you know, just, you know, well presented herself, and she went up there, and she looked down, and she said, yeah, we… we collect, produce that nobody wants, and we sell it. on the market. And the judges, you know, some of these pitch contests can just be terrible, right?

Karen Laos: as well.

Alex Grande: I think the judges are there for free drinks, honestly. But they're, you know, they're like this, and this guy goes, okay, I gotta ask some questions, so what's your revenue? You know, let's just get… let's get this over with. No revenue, right? She goes, $3 million. And then the judge is all perked up. Wait, what? What did you say? Let's talk, let's talk. But yeah, I mean, it's so funny how she went out there and presented herself in a different way, you know, they would, you know, it's so interesting, I just… but, you know, if you have the right message, you can present yourself in any way you want.

Karen Laos: It is fascinating. Well, what you're describing is exactly that credibility gap. So, she was not representing the credibility that she had.

Karen Laos: company head. It's fascinating to me, this happens so often. Just fascinates me.

Alex Grande: Awesome, you know, also, there's a book, called Compelling People, and if people haven't heard of it, check it out, Compelling People. It's written by political consultants to help people prepare for speeches and things like that. And the main premise of the book is you want to have warmth and strength. Right? And if you can do both, you know, like, my friend Kyra, I remember on our, yoga retreat in Joshua Tree, she said. I hope everyone has enjoyed the meal I presented, I made it with love, and when you're done, please put your plates away so I don't have to clean up.

Karen Laos: That's awesome!

Alex Grande: warm, but then she was very stern about what needs to happen. She's not doing our dishes. And and so that warmth and strength, but in that book, it was funny, because one of the things it talks about is this power walk, where you kind of bob him down a little bit, like a… like a bird, and I remember then going and taking a tango class. And they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what are you doing? And I'm like, I'm doing the power walk, and they're like, no, you don't walk like that, really? You don't walk like that? And I was like, well, yeah, in the office. And they're like, no, no, no, you walk like this. You know, like, bingo. So I don't know, what do you think? What do you think? I don't know.

Karen Laos: Well, you are reminding me of when I took ballroom dancing classes when I was 18 years old, and I walked in the studio one day, and somebody thought I was an instructor. And I was so taken aback. I was looking around, and I said, I have to ask you, what compelled you to say that? And he said, well, you walked in with so much confidence and poise, and I thought. That was one of those aha moments as a young person to go, oh, I see, and it's so fascinating. So fascinating.

Alex Grande: Oh my god.

Karen Laos: And, yeah, go ahead.

Alex Grande: Oh, my friend Chris reminds me… actually, he's a vice principal in the Bay Area in a public school, and he changed… at one point, he changed his look when we were in our 20s to, like, a mustache and a hat, and suddenly, people in San Francisco were just coming up to him. Really? You know, and like, you can just change, you know, like, like, like, You know, I know authors of the past, or certain people, you know, they obviously, they change their name, they change their look, they do that so they… they're peacocking, so to speak.

Karen Laos: Well, and that… I have two things I want to say. I want to talk about the warmth and strength, but I also want to say that whole distinct, like, how do you make yourself distinctive? And things like the mustache and the hat, or, like, people comment on my glasses a lot, or I have these gold pants that I call my magic pants, and… I think it's so fun to experiment with those, and that's a good reminder for anybody to determine, like, what makes you you, and why not have some fun? I mean, for me, one of my core values is flair. So, I always… it's just sort of been a natural part of who I am, but then when I named it, it felt really great to go, yeah, that's part of my brand. But I did want to say, I love what you said from compelling People. there's a study, too, you may know, through the woman Amy Cuddy, who used to be a professor at Columbia University, and she… or, excuse me, Princeton, and she also is the one that created the power poses. But what I love when she talks about the warmth and competence, so her study, very similar to what you're talking about with warmth and strength. she said… she asked people, would you rather be judged first on your competence or your warmth? Knowing that you're going to be judged on both within a nanosecond. And she said, overwhelmingly, people said they wanted to be judged on their competence first. And yet, it is fascinating that the research shows its warmth first. And yet, of course, you have to have both, and I do think that a lot of times we take feedback, so let's say if we go back to where we started around executive presence feedback, or… and then it's vague, so what do we do with that? And remembering the power of going, you know what? I am gonna focus on what I most need to do here, remembering that there's the balance of that warmth and assertiveness, warmth and strength, just like you're saying, however you want to name it. But I think what happens is people tend to go either on one side or the other, or somebody will say, oh, you need more assertiveness. Then they get super assertive, but they forget things like warmth. comes through, so this is another measurable thing. So we can say warmth, but what does that actually mean? So your example of that person was a great one. And then what I… when I talk about warmth, I talk about it from two angles, which is facial expression, number one, and then secondly, voice. So, of course, all of these things are integrated, but remembering the tone of your voice is so powerful, along with that smile, or the lightness to your expression.

Alex Grande: I know, I know, gosh, it makes me so sad that, you know, as a remote team, you know, like, talking to Jess just yesterday about how much that is lost over Slack or Teams.

Karen Laos: Oh, yes!

Alex Grande: But I do want to make sure we ask, you know, a number of other questions. I think we have a great list here. And, you know, so, just jumping around a little bit, actually, you mentioned values, and I'd love to talk a bit more about that. Like, when a company knows the values and behaviors that lead to ideal outcomes in their organization, either that being interpersonal, or company values, or KPIs. You know, how do we promote and reach adoption of those values across the organization, from your experience?

Karen Laos: From my experience, it's often taking… so there's a difference, of course, between companies that have values and they're changing them, or companies that… I mean, we all have values, they're just not often named. So, what my work with clients around this is usually with executive teams, so sometimes it's simply naming what already exists. And I think it's wonderful to get feedback from the team. Ask the employees, hey, what do you see our values as? And, of course, giving people agency to give input, and then determining, okay, so that's one thing, but then there's also, how do you define those? Very much like executive presence. Everybody's gonna define, let's say, the value of joy a different way. And in fact, I was, I did the Dare to Lead training by Brené Brown. And one of her great exercises in there that I have also replicated now, she has a values list where you… basically go around, and you're… it's almost like you're at a dinner party, and you put your… how I've adopted it, actually, this isn't something that came from Brene, but putting the value on your name tag, and walking around the room, and saying, so, hi, connection! I'm Courage. What does that mean to you? and being able, and I've actually done this exercise with teams, because it is so interesting, number one, you get to know each other better, and really starting kind of… I'm jumping around a little bit, but even starting with your own personal values first. And then, how does that then show up at the company that I am working within? And how, then, could that be distilled into, okay, what are our 3-5 company values? And as you know so well, Alex. it's one thing to have those values on a website, or on the wall in the hallway at your office, but do you actually live them out? And so this is where I think it's on the executive team to make sure that those are defined in language that everybody can understand, and then continue to revisit those over time. Because I've worked with a lot of companies where the new employees have no idea what the values are, but then it comes review time. And they're being reviewed on these values that they never even knew existed. You know, there's so… there's so much to it.

Alex Grande: 100%, I mean, you're speaking to the choir, I mean, I started Recognize because I wanted companies to be able to promote their values in a gamified way with badging and social components, and obviously, eventually, we added rewards, but it didn't start off with rewards. The main point was are you promoting your values? And I worked at companies that had programs, you know, every, last Friday of the month. They bought beer, they bought soda, they bought snacks, and one of the gregarious, well-liked employees would read off the recognitions of the… of the month, right? And so, you join the company, within a month, you know the values. That's amazing.

Karen Laos: your phone.

Alex Grande: Exactly, and then I worked at companies that didn't have that, and it was just so… kind of boring, you know? And you… and then you didn't know, hey. what's happening at this company? What are all these people doing? You know? Like, I want to see the wins of the company, which, again, that's why we started Recognize. So, if anyone on this webinar wants to learn more about Recognize, Jess will share the link. Also, coming back into the, the screen here with Karen, if you want to reach out to Karen and connect with her on the credibility gap and speaking more with her, check out her website, KarenLaos.com, and that's her information right there. And just to remind everybody as well. I'm Alex Grande, please connect with me, there's my email address. You can find me on LinkedIn, you can, find me on Google. you can find Recognize as well. The conversation, again, is, how to create more of an executive presence. So, let's continue the conversation. I have a number of other questions to cover, in the time we have. So, you know, going back to, you know, talking a bit about, the cost of silence, I think you touched on that in the beginning. So, how does vague feedback lead people to stop asking questions or speaking up? Or tell us more about the cost of silence.

Karen Laos: Well, the number one thing I would say, just as individuals, we're not honoring ourselves and our uniqueness when we don't speak up. And think about how each one of us brings an incredible uniqueness to the world. Perspective is so powerful, and the research tells us that the more voices there are, the more helpful it is, rather than just having one or two people always be the ones that are contributing. So, that's the first thing that I want to say is so powerful. Not to mention, if we go back to the cost of silence specifically for an individual, and I know what it cost me. I mean, there was actually a time where I didn't make a direct ask in my corporate life, and I missed out on a promotion probably for a good year. And that was my fault. I wasn't specific. I, at the time, didn't feel that I was… you know, I grew up that you don't want to bother people, you don't want to ask, and so many times, you know, my next book is going to be on the cost of not asking, so it's very similar around the cost of silence. And that we miss opportunities. I mean, at the end of the day, it's missed opportunities. So that's… that's what I'd say specifically with that. And what was the second part of your question, Alex?

Alex Grande: Yeah, no, just about, vague feedback, and how that can lead people to, to, to not speak up.

Karen Laos: Yes, thank you. So, yeah, when it's vague, then we leave sort of powerless, and the thing that many of us miss, going back to the ask, is asking for clarity on vagueness. So, if somebody says, you just need more executive presence, ask, what would that look like? I want to make sure that I am doing what… what you're suggesting, so I can learn from it, and most importantly, so I can produce the… or, you know, basically live up to my potential, you know, whatever you might want to say. But asking for clarification, rather than walking away feeling like, oh, I didn't want to ask because I felt dumb, or something like that. Like, those are all things that I've heard have happened so many times, so that asking for clarification.

Alex Grande: verification.

Karen Laos: so important, because if we get that vague feedback, most people walk away and think, I don't know what to do, so I'm not going to ask again, because it's too risky. We feel uncomfortable. Or possibly, even some places, we're afraid of backlash, because it has happened to other people, if you question something. So, there's so many things that are wrapped up in this, situation-dependent, but this is where I would also invite you to think about what, for anybody listening, is what is the cost of me not speaking up? And even journal about it, or write down a couple of bullet points, or then, even more importantly. What… what would… what possibilities exist if I did speak up?

Alex Grande: Right, right.

Karen Laos: I'm I’m hoping toward the positive.

Alex Grande: We have a question from Jill, and I'll get to it in just a second. Before I forget, I was in Atlanta, visiting… we were visiting friends, and, she is a boss lady, our friend in Atlanta. Very successful in tech, now runs a non-profit that she started, and she does not ask for permission on anything. She's kind of bossy, but she does it with a smile. And she gets results. I asked her, what is the number one thing that's made you successful? And she said, I have a vision, but then I see the steps to get there. But what she didn't say was, she also tells, hey, this is my vision, and this is what we need to do to get there. She doesn't wait for someone to give her permission to do that. And I think that's why she was so successful, in, in tech. Go ahead.

Karen Laos: Well, no, that is so great, Alex. I'm reminded by somebody that interviewed me a couple years ago who was the CEO of a large company, and he said, you know, I… he goes, I had somebody on my team who I hired as a leader. And about 2 months in, she approached him and said, hey, you know, we'll just call him Tom, hey, hey Tom, can I share some ideas at the next meeting? And he said. I hired you to lead, like, you could have said something at the first meeting! But she didn't think she had permission. Yeah. And this is such a good example. I love hearing these stories, like you just shared, of these powerful people sharing, especially… I have a heart for women because I am one, and I had my own struggles with that as well.

Alex Grande: Oh, I love, you know, and it's on, you know, for men as well, I love John Mulaney, the comedian, one of his jokes is, I… when I enter in a room, I say, sorry. Right? Sorry for being here. So I think that, I think we all kind of feel that kind of, what's it called? The complex where, imposter syndrome.

Karen Laos: Yes.

Alex Grande: But, you hear executives, I mean, I ask stupid questions all the time. I love preferencing things, though. It could only help if someone says, I wrote this in another book, which escapes me the title, but it's to say, hey, boss, I am down for the mission, but I got a couple questions, so I fully understand what to do next.

Karen Laos: That's good!

Alex Grande: But let's jump to Jill's question here. You know, we have only so much time left, and there's a few more questions I want to get to. But Jill asks, talk about how to speak up in a room of executives who never stop talking. I think we all know what that's like, and we don't want to interrupt them. And at least in Zoom, I have the hand raised, I can do it now here in Zoom. But we, you know, it's kind of weird doing that in a boardroom.

Karen Laos: Yeah, couple things. So there's the physicality, and then there's the actual what you say. So the physicality is doing a little bit of a lean forward, and this is where you could have your hands above the table if they're not already, but hopefully they are, but generally speaking, we rest our hands in our laps for most people. So thinking about just a change in physical posture can also make it look like you're really engaged and interested, and that you have something to say. Now, I recognize every environment is going to be a little bit different, but then what I would suggest actually saying, from a verbal perspective is something I call the empathy Bridge. So, think about what people… what they're saying, and use something that they're saying as a way to acknowledge, like, say, oh my gosh, yes, you know, if it… if it doesn't… I mean, it might feel weird, I was gonna say, if it isn't weird, but the idea is that you… Grab something that they've said, so maybe they're talking about budgets. I 100% agree, or I'm so glad we're talking about budgets. What I'd love to share is this. So, it does… and you also interject with a smile on your face, or at least a lightness, because what I have experienced myself, and seen in thousands of people that I've coached now over the years, is that when we are nervous. We tend to have this furrowed brow, or… or we have this face that looks, yeah, afraid, or something. So, it might look like you're a deer in the headlights when you do that. However, I'd also suggest practicing this in advance, watching it on video. As weird as that might sound to a lot of people, the video is so powerful. You can imagine as if you're talking to somebody, put a camera on yourself, and then look at how you came across. Now, that's not going to be the exact same scenario, of course. But it can help. But that empathy bridge is a great way to interject, because they're feeling good that, oh, someone acknowledged my idea. And then moving it along. So that's one of my ideas. I'd love to hear yours, Alex.

Alex Grande: Gosh, well, I just have talked to so many HR leaders for, you know, doing this for over 10 years, and, in Recognize, and It's been interesting to just discover how some places can be so toxic.

Karen Laos: I was fantastic.

Alex Grande: Let's be honest. And there's executives out there that are just insufferable, and there's nothing you can do about it, I feel like, other than just finding somewhere else to work, sometimes. But, but, because some people just will not listen to other people, and, And I know it can be hard sometimes for all of us, depending on how heightened the situation is, but there's some people I've had in these kind of big discussion calls with leaders where some people just, they just take over. And that's why I love that show, Succession, I just finished watching it.

Karen Laos: Oh, I've heard…

Alex Grande: This is one character, he just never can listen to anyone's feedback. And I think, you know, as a leader, you know, usually you have to look up, maybe. maybe sometimes you… look, I am the leader, I know what's best, but you have to hear everyone's feedback and collaborate, and if you're working with people who just will not collaborate, it just makes it so hard to enjoy working there.

Alex Grande: But I think, yeah, I think, but, you know, I think we made a good point where you active listen. You know, you kind of edge yourself in, like, you maybe mimic, great reporters. Great reporters know how to get their word in.

Karen Laos: Yes.

Alex Grande: interview.

Karen Laos: Well…

Alex Grande: Go ahead.

Karen Laos: Yeah, absolutely, and I've noted this in the chat, but it might have just gone to us. that, for Jill and anybody else, that sometimes it's also appropriate for the situation to mention it in advance, but come from a place of power, not just, oh, I'd like to speak up at the next meeting, but hey, I have something to add for the next meeting. When would be the best time in the agenda to do that? Then you're proactive, there's an expectation that you're going to be speaking, and it can help a lot in the moment.

Alex Grande: That's great, get it in the agenda. I love that. And Jill, any other things, please, please bring it up. But we are almost at the 45 mark. Typically we go into some kind of Q&A at some point for the rest of the group as well. If you want to put in your question, please chime in as we're starting to round out the hour. But I'd love to ask, another question from the list. Which was… yeah, so this was, like, I think, important one to a lot of people, especially for people on the call who maybe have joined a role, a new role recently. But how do we build trust and credibility quickly, you know, in the first 90 days of a new role or at a new company?

Karen Laos: Besides the Presence that we've been talking about, is Getting on people's calendars. Ask lots of questions, so I would make sure that you set up with… well, first of all, ask who you should be meeting with. You know, in an ideal scenario, a person would give you a beautiful onboarding checklist, and here are the people to meet. That's not always going to happen, so you've got to be proactive to go, who do I need to meet? And I started my career in HR, so definitely is very, very familiar with this, hired a lot of people, and set up a lot of these beautiful onboarding rituals, or routines, I should say. But the idea of really meeting people, getting to know them. Caring about them, and that may sound very basic, but coming from a place of curiosity. asking those questions, and then taking notes. And think about how you're building your own visibility. You have to be your own best advocate, so what I mean by that is get to know people also. Outside of your department. Because the more people know you, the more you can show your value, and… potentially, you know, maybe not in the first 90 days, but remember the power of volunteering for things, if you can make time for it, to say, hey, like, maybe there's a company newsletter that you want to contribute to, or asking for opportunities. Of course, this depends on what your goals are, and that's actually a good place to start, is what is your actual desired outcome from the role that you have at the company? And how can you leverage the things that might exist in the company, or just opportunities that you want to create? I mean, I've created… over my career, I created 4 different jobs for myself, because I saw a need, it intersected with what I really wanted to do, and I said, hey boss, this is what I want to do, but coming from a place of why it would benefit the company. You always gotta think about your audience.

Alex Grande: Yeah, that's so good. So, you know, what I'm hearing is, be curious, look for opportunities, don't be afraid to take on, pet projects, side projects, collaborations. You know, that really resonates with me. I have a friend who, was, like, employee number 4, of an online tea company, and it grew to over now 50 employees, and he's Chief Growth Officer And he said, you know, he commands the, you know, sales team, the marketing team, and he says, gosh, thank goodness there's AI now, because I would be in so much trouble He wouldn't know what to do. He's never done that before. So I think leveraging AI, we are now all programmers. English is the programming language now. I haven't written… like, I've written a little bit of code, but most… I have barely written any code in the last two years because of AI now, and so…

Alex Grande: And you could be, you know, I love the commercials I'm seeing where it's the, you know, the pizza shop that creates a budget dashboard with Claude, and now they're selling lots of pizzas. I mean, it's ridiculous, but anyone can now be a data scientist.

Karen Laos: Yes.

Alex Grande: So, that's something that would come to mind on, on, on these days. But, but when you say build, you know, when you say, like, collaborate or not be afraid to connect with projects. You know, do you have any examples or any ideas of, like, maybe what level do you collaborate with? Do you have someone across the board, or someone higher up, or…

Karen Laos: Yeah, I would say start… well, start… it's kind of like how I teach high-stakes situation. If you practice in the low stakes, you'll be more… more ready for the high stakes. So, one idea could simply be even asking your boss, hey, I would love to start getting to know people in the company, who would you recommend that I start with? Because you also want to come from that place of humility, you want to be proactive. and show, hey, I want to meet people, and make it a goal, maybe to meet two people a week, or more. I mean, I don't know, it all depends on how many people are there. But I would say, happy to, like, have… and I would have questions ready. what are the questions that you want? So I'm thinking about different question sets for somebody who is a peer versus somebody that might be, let's say, if we assume that if you're not an executive, then it might be, hey, I was even asking your boss, hey, I would love to ask a few questions, get on some of the executive calendars for 15 minutes. Is that okay? Because sometimes it is good to ask for permission so that you're not I don't know.

Alex Grande: Right, right.

Karen Laos: It's hard. It's always a judgment call, and knowing what's appropriate for the company culture.

Alex Grande: Yeah, right, right.

Karen Laos: Because you also don't want to look like this person that just came in, and you're trying to run the show. But when you come from that place of, like you said, Alex, humility, and yet balanced with that confidence of, hey, I'm eager to learn more about the company. but also people's journeys. And people love to be asked questions about themselves. So I think that's also important.

Alex Grande: Senior Manager, how can I help you succeed? You know, so that we succeed together.

Alex Grande: So that's a, you know, I think it goes back to, again, yeah, I mean, even with my business partner, if I go off and do a bunch of stuff and don't tell him, and then just be like, and then he finds out I'm doing all these other things instead of the thing that we talked about, he would probably not be happy, you know? People want to be in the know. Right? Of what's going on. I think that's one of the, biggest anxieties for managers and leaders, is being like, what are people doing? You know, or what is the status of X, or happening? When is that going to be done? Right? So the more, you know, kind of, like, status, I think we all have to be project managers of our own work, and then you build trust, you know? I think… Exactly. Another thing around building trust is, first 90 days, they ask you to… whatever they ask you to do, mow the lawn, even, do it, you know?

Karen Laos: Way.

Alex Grande: Like, you know, I know sometimes it can be hurtful for some… I've heard certain people say, oh my god, I… the boss asked me to go get donuts. You know, and they're really upset about it. Rightly so, you know?

Alex Grande: But, you know, being a yes person, I think, in the first 90 days helps build that trust, though.

Karen Laos: Oh, for sure. Well, I'm thinking about something else. When I worked at the Gap, that was one of my first jobs, real jobs, in the corporate office in San Bruno, California, and it was a… I had a new boss who was very different from my other one. And frankly, it wasn't a very pleasant experience. It would always make me wait. When we had our meetings. He would never be on time. He would take calls during our meetings. And what I realized that… in that moment is that I had to be proactive, because a lot of times, too, there would almost be, like, this gaslighting thing that would happen later of, whoa, he said this, but now he's saying something different. So what I did, and this is also what I'd recommend people do in general, is after the meeting, I would do a recap. Here's what we talked about, here are the action items that I heard, and this is my plan, unless you direct me otherwise. So that made me feel like now I have written documentation, and I am also sharing, hey, this is what I'm doing. And another example is, and I know you love celebrating Alex, because it's such a big part of Recognize. And remembering as an action item for everybody that wants to take this on is something I call a celebration portfolio, which is to make a list of all of your accomplishments, but also your character qualities that make you just so great to work with and be around. And you do that so that you not only feel more of the confidence yourself to see the data points right in front of you, but it's also so powerful, because I know I had a number of people reporting to me in the past, and I couldn't remember every single thing that they did, but when they came to me and said, here are my top 3 accomplishments from the last week. then I'd go, that's awesome! I didn't… I only knew about one of those. So, remembering to be your own best advocate.

Alex Grande: Yeah, I mean, that's why companies should have that culture of recognition, where it's… the manager can go in, we summarize with AI, they can see the wins, the overarching wins, they can use it for performance reviews, and I… and I definitely advocate anyone who is starting a role, or even already in a role. to keep a log of every win that you have, right? Yeah. Every major decision, every major milestone or KPI, and you can use those in your performance review, in showing your manager, hey, here's how I'm winning, and you shouldn't be ashamed to do that. And then. Your resume will always be up to date, because you can always grab.

Karen Laos: Yes!

Alex Grande: It in your resume.

Karen Laos: Brilliant.

Alex Grande: Well, Karen, this has been such a great conversation. Thank you so much for the last 50-plus minutes together. Thank you. And I'm gonna go back and put the screen up so you can see, everyone can see how to connect with me, take a picture of the QR code, recognizeapp.com, or just search Recognize in LinkedIn or Google, and Recognize is our employee recognition and rewards platform. Karen, if you're in the Bay Area, connect with her in person, or go to her website, KarenLaos.com, and check out how she's helped NASA, Google, Hilton, and more, and how she's invented things like the, Well, the, confidence cocktail, again. I hope that's a gin martini, because that's my favorite. It's whatever you want.

Karen Laos: it to me.

Alex Grande: But yeah, so we're having another webinar, really excited for that, on November 18th, so, come to that. With Melissa Ryder-Carson, and and we're excited to have you there. By the way, I do a live demo of Recognize, so you can see what I'm talking about with promoting your rewards, your recognition, your employees. And, you know, our subscription pays for itself 10 times over, especially using it in your sales incentive program, or a safety incentive program. But just retaining or engaging one employee will pay for what we do here, and we will help you get started and use Recognize for the long haul. I know a lot of people have trouble with recognition, where they start it and then they forget about it, nothing happens. So, that's not what we do at Recognize. We get your program adopted for the long haul. I'm so excited to celebrate 10 years with some of our customers now. Now that we've been doing it for over 10 years, it's nice to have customers who have been with us for 10 years, and some of those customers still see 80% of their staff recognized every month. You know, some companies don't want it that frequently. Depends on your culture. Maybe, you know, you're frontline, you need it more frequently, or maybe you have people who are already intrinsically motivated, and they just need that quarterly award. We also do those as well. So, please connect with us, come to that live demo, it's gonna be really fun. That's gonna be on November 19th, the day after the next webinar.